Wednesday, August 5, 2009

Re: APOC Philly Slap a White Boy Action Against Crimethinc

I feel that folks here in L.A. have been trying to focus on organizing our own communities for a coupe of years now, learning from our own experiences in the movement in general.

We understand that the white left isn't where it should be, but we shouldn't make it about them. That is never our responsibility, we're wasting time, energy, and resources on them instead of building in our own communities: building autonomous people's councils, "people's institutions," and revolutionary base areas.

Really, sometimes we do have to slap a white boy, that's real. That's if they're attacking our communities or disrespecting, sometimes you have to do that. From what I hear though, those Crimethinc folks were having dialogue on gentrification (challenging it) and how they could be better allies, even though I disagree with their politics and their approach.

We should be conscious that there is a "left-wing white supremacy" (as Lorenzo Komboa Ervin pointed out) in the forms of white left vanguard parties and also within the anarchist "scene" but how do we challenge that? Do we go to their gatherings and disrupt their events? What for? To me it shows that maybe that is where the folks that did this action are at, and what they see more important, self-gratification vs. the needs of the people. We should challenge the ideas that come from Crimethinc and the left-wing white supremacists, more so in the realm of theory, practice, and praxis. Let's not make it about what they're doing, that is for them to figure out.

I applaud the work of folks in Philly in the sense that they're creating a space for queer, trans, and non-men-identifying folks of color. I support that just like I support people of color creating their own vision, strategy, space etc. I was never opposed to that. My concerns were the approach of some of the folks that identify as APOC as a whole. In general, again, my people are my responsibility, and we have to work with each other where we're at.

I feel that the Crimethinc actions were reactionary, in all meanings of the word reactionary.

We don't have any real political, theoretical, and/or tactical unity at this point within APOC, and I feel this is where all these disagreements stem from. However, I hope if someone does an an action in the name of APOC that can jeopardize the group, that we hold them accountable.

I do think we should all put out a statement or at least different APOC collectives put out different statements publicly. Since the majority of people think that the Crimethinc "Slap a White Boy" action was endorsed by all of APOC.

Jordan spoke about Philly folks building autonomy, we should all get into what that really means. Having my own understanding of autonomy, learning from the indigenous communities down south in Mexico, it does not mean we go into communities that are not our own and tell people how they should organize, or imposing our vision on others. It does not mean building a click or a scene, it means building dual power and confronting the state, the settler-colonial institutions and creating the councils of the people that are the foundation for the new world we are trying to build.


Anonymous said...

If you don't mind a white guy saying it, I think you make a good point. (waisting time on CrimethInc and Food Not Bombs) Unfortunately, from what I read, I think Jordan is too far gone for sensible arguments. (he is too consumed by his agenda)

crudo said...

What's up man. Nice seeing you at the LA stuff, hope you can come out to Modesto sometime. I linked your blog from mine.

Joaquin Cienfuegos said...

I don't think i was necessarily trying to debate anybody, I was just putting out my two-cents on the subject.

Who is Bay Area National Anarchist?

Anonymous said...

They are white nationalists.

no god, no state, no ... miscegenation?

jordan said...


I don't know who you are white man but get my fucking gender identity right and use they/them or she/her for my pronouns!

May I ask KF what my agenda is?

- jordan from APOC Philly

Joaquin Cienfuegos said...

yo sorry, no personal attacks on here folks

thanks for responding though jordan.

glad you can speak for yourself

Comrade Martin said...

As a white, hetero man from an impoverished rural community in Ohio, I try to keep my wits about me whenever entering in to a conversation about priveledge.

I understand the validity and necessity of the self-organization of any oppressed and exploited community. Such organization must occur spontaneously, and embody the goals and values of the people in question as pertains to their end goal.

My question for APOC, Uhuru, and similar movements among POC would be: what is the logical end of the self-contained organization of people that they have thus far created? Put differently, if their model for revolutionary struggle is the model they want to see in the world, what would that world look like?

Now, I may just be a clueless farm boy - but it seems to me that either tailing the left because its too white for their likin' or segregating your organization could only arrive at one thing: an anti-humanist dystopia based on imaginary lines of race.

Of course, I hear about how "race is an imaginary boundary that has become a social reality," but how does it make sense to smash it by replicating that "social reality" in to your model of a future social reality? Isn't that just repeating what the ruling class has been promoting with ghettoization and gentrification?

It functions as a POC counterpart to white supremacist/seperatist movements which, like Garvey's famous tet-a-tet with the Klan, wholly compliments their racist agenda.

What ever happened to internationalism?

Adrian Guerrero said...

as a chicano anarchist, what disturbs me the most was the slinging around of the accusation "race traitor" against those people of color who took part in the crimethinc convergence.

by defining what is and is not acceptable for a person of color to do because they are a person of color, we are doing two things:
1.) building a dogma on what is acceptable for us as people of color to do that is based on white racism. if we can't be members of crimethinc or other similar organizations because it makes us "race traitors," it's ACTUALLY because we're holding ourselves to a white racist definition for what is and is not acceptable person of color behavior. if i shouldn't be a member of predominantly white organizations BECAUSE I AM A PERSON OF COLOR, then i am being held back by the color of my skin. my identity as a chicano should not hold me back to do anything (unless it is degrading to other chican@s). i have nothing to lose but my fucking chains.

2.) holding each other down. that fucking sucks. i am well acquainted with racism (up until about 19, i sincerely thought that all white people were evil, because none had ever treated me respectfully), and this sadly extends to the anarchist community as well. it is inevitable in the U.S. today. BUT, i'm not going to let the racism of some people hold me back as to where i want to go. we should draw upon the example of brother malcolm x, who wrote about his experiences living amongst white people on his pilgrimage to mecca. if the brother had allowed the racism of white folks to hold him back from doing whatever-the-fuck-he-wanted-to-do, electing to avoid living with white people, then the brother might have never made it to mecca.